I have to admit I’m struggling here. I loved this interview, and my husband and I had these goals in mind for our family, and when we first got married we lived much like this family. And then we had kids, and we moved away from family and community in order to be able to afford to live out our values more fully, and let me be a stay at home mom and homeschool. And then we had a child with autism and mental disorders. And I tried to homeschool twice and it was a disaster. And we live in a rural, high poverty area where finding kindred spirits and community is extremely hard. I am an artist and my business is entirely based online (and it’s very successful but would NOT be successful at all if I tried to have a brick and mortar store in the area we live in). Over the difficult course of 12 years our family looks nothing like what my husband and I originally aspired to and what my husband and I still aspire to. My son hates being outside, he’s obsessed with technology. My children (both “double digits”) do not seem to value what we value and what we have tried and STILL try to instill in them. I love this newsletter but honestly, I feel so discouraged hearing how somehow families have managed to continue to live out their non-tech values without (seemingly?) a constant battle. I don’t know. Being “unplugged,” working in our large garden, listening to beautiful music, reading poetry, good literature, and surrounding ourselves with and pursuing the Good, True, and Beautiful in the myriad way that entails is still our goal…but oh my goodness it’s a battle. Do other people battle for this with their kids? My bubble has been popped in thinking this osmosis will just “happen” because we live this way, our children will live this way too! And I’m grieved in realizing that as hard as we have tried for some reason we just don’t seem to have the seamless time that this author has with creating a beautiful family culture that our kids are rooted next to us in. Anyway, I’m hanging on, praying and trying like crazy, but I would really love to hear a perspective from someone who struggles mightily for this vision, and largely alone since we don’t have extended family to draw on, and community in general is very sparse (and no, we can’t move somewhere else or change the culture here. We’ve tried). Thank you for any insights.
I don’t have much to add to Tessa’s response, except to say you seem to have demonstrated great resilience amid the challenges you’ve faced. For me, one of the takeaway messages of your story isn’t so much what we (the writers) have to teach you about tech use, but a recognition that we need to be careful about creating (even inadvertently) an idealized vision of life, and that we need to hear more stories, like yours, that keep us awake to the complex realities.
The only other thing I can say is, don’t underestimate the beautiful seeds of love and effort you are planting, however imperfect it may seem.
Thank you Peco for your thoughtful response. One of the things I liked the most about your Exogenesis book (that’s what brought me to your Substack) was the complexity and “non-black and white” world that you created. There definitely was no idealized vision of life, and it rang really true to me. We can try to live out our ideals (that isn’t a bad thing) but it is always extremely messy. Like the Benedites trying to go back to the “old ways,” the true ways but maybe overshooting a bit (it reminded me a bit of that movie “The Village” by M. Night Shyamalan), but still grappling with sin creeping in, and/or their children rejecting their vision of a good and beautiful life. The Kingdom is now and not yet, and even our best intentions are tainted with sin or the result of sin and brokenness in this world. There are so many things I could say, and layers to unpack about the complexities of even “failing” at what I think will be the best ways to help and safeguard my children. And how mental illness and disibilities in our family factors in to this. And even just the complexities of our extended families not being the safest and healthiest people so it’s hard to find people to rely on. I really love to hear your vision of how to sow seeds of beauty and resistance, but the dirt that some of us are working with seems very inhospitable 😂 but God is the Gardener, right?
I’m glad that Exogenesis resonated with you. Thank you for reading!
As for family, yes, I think you are spot on. Life, especially family life, is complexities all the way down. We’re still learning but the best lesson so far is that the complications are often the soil itself, not the stone or thorn. It’s easy to say that, of course; yet I keep finding it to be true.
Beth, thank you so much for your note. I wanted to say, first of all, that you are doing beautiful work for your family, and you are not alone in the battle!
And it truly is a battle (a battle I believe worth fighting, even though the way our families live it out or our particular battles will not look exactly the same as each other's), and it's really important to acknowledge that.
To fight for a good life for our family is indeed hard; to do it joyfully is harder. We don't have a seamless life; indeed, no one has! And we each of us need friends in our lives (even if they don't live next door—and indeed, we don't have family next door and none of my closest friends live in our town or our state) to encourage us and to help us work through those individual challenges.
I think it's hard to give particular insights without getting really specific, and without knowing each other's background and experience—which is why I've found it so so helpful to have friends who really know me to be able to walk through challenges with me (and who can really speak into my life and tell me things that I need to hear when I don't want to hear them!). But honestly, the best encouragement and insight I've gotten is from the lives of the saints, and of people like Maria Von Trapp—people who are quietly faithful, and keep going and keep trying, no matter the setbacks, who continually seek God through everything.
And for me, that's ultimately what this is all about—not living some "perfect homestead" life or anything like that, but knowing and loving God with our whole hearts, and being transformed by the Love that moves the stars. That's what I want for my children, and if I want them to be transformed by Love, I need to be transformed myself (and how much I need to grow and change!), and to give them the space to have that relationship for themselves.
I wish I could meet with you and talk over coffee or tea. I pray in the meantime, that you would be encouraged, dear sister. Keep praying, keep loving. God loves you and your family so much, and will not let you down!
Thank you so much Tessa. Yes you are so right. I cling to hope that this stage we are in is not the end of the story, and that God is experiencing this pain and struggle intimately with and in us, and us in His triune love! I too have found so much solace in the lives of the Saints. And my husband and I just became Benedictine oblates (we are in our novitiate year) at an Abbey 3 hours from us in order to find more stability in a deep and beautiful community, and so our children can further be exposed to people seeking the Good life in ways so beautifully countercultural. I wish we could chat about all the complexities over coffee too 😊 thank you so much for your prayers.
Conspicuous performance of an aspirational lifestyle, including a “low tech” lifestyle, on the internet (ironically enough), is what gets the writers of this newsletter, the woman being interviewed here, etc. an income - or at least the digital platform that could potentially generate an income. Invitations to lectures that are livestreamed. Maintaining an author website, a twitter account, publishing in digital journals, etc. The same activities as any good fashion influencer might indulge in. Perhaps, fewer selfies.
It’s all about the spin, isn’t it? I baked a great loaf of bread yesterday and we’re planning for springtime in our small suburban garden; we went to church and took a walk in a public garden afterwards; we had friends over and played with their baby; my 4yo demanded to read St. George and the Dragon for the umpteenth time and we practiced writing her letters.
Then, at the end of the day Sunday, I lay on the couch while she watched Bluey for an hour while my accountant husband caught up on work and because I’m in my 1st trimester and needed to take a little nap before I collapsed. At bedtime, I played her her favorite lullaby album on my smart phone.
You don’t need to LARP to have a good life, IMO. My parents were conservative homeschoolers who did their utmost to impose a vision like this on us. It didn’t stick. We were all happier when they gave up and we got to approach each other as ourselves, rather than with some kind of Family Culture Agenda.
We've started using our digital camera again, and it's so much easier to download pictures into our computer. Literally take the memory chip out, and drag the file over. Done! Way more "convenient" than those apps, and more fun when snapping surprise pics of my wife in the garden:
Cellphone pics are a poor substitute for a real camera, and I'm shopping for a new digital Nikon (light-leak drop damaged my 35mm) because of the already-owned accessories/lenses. I miss my slides and the lighted images projected on a big white sheet!
A tiny picture hardly does justice to the Real big & beautiful.
1980's vivid, suck-in-my-breath to keep from crying moment:
Walking through the home/mansion and seeing The Boating Party on the wall.
My heart wept too when Cassatt's Mother and Child was displayed at eye level in the next room of Phillips Collection in DC. A must visit in the Capital.
“Art is part of the social purpose of the world and requires appreciation and the bonds of fellowship with all who understand. Art is meant to give pleasure―but pleasure of the right kind.”―Duncan Phillips, 1926
Tech robs me of hard-earned bits and pieces of my heart. I do not want to surrender to the endomorphic end game.
Ah. Love that you're devoted to quality over quantity. Pleasure of the right kind...why I love only a certain kind of dark chocolate, and buy nothing else.
Recently (last 10years) the plants, bugs and life in my perennial garden are the most compelling to me. My cat is my assistant who often "photo bombs" the composition if I'm too engrossed.
When I travel, my photos help me remember the mood deep in the memory of a place or thing seen, which may or might not lead to painting or writing after I return from a journey.
I love your posts. I am a technophile, but also recognize you can have too much of a good thing. They are GREAT reminders to put down the tech and enjoy the world.
It's worth noting that I homeschooled my kids, and they all (a) had VERY limited exposure to technology, and (b) turned out to be extremely capable technologically and in life. One of them got a degree in computer science from Stanford and another in Game Art and Animation from University of Advancing Technology. How could that happen with kids limited to one computer hour (including games) a day? Well, they had to use that time wisely. Plus, I assured they all could build websites and had basic computer knowledge as elementary students, which only grew with them. It doesn't take much to make someone saavy, and assuring they read lots of paper books and hands-on ability doesn't hurt either!
I really appreciate in this interview the idea of moving not from a place of fear but from a place of being able to discern what makes a life good and joyful and worth living. By not allowing technology to control our lives we aren't living less, but more.
Wonderful interview. Tessa spoke often about the intentionality she has for her children, especially around play, work, education, and bringing community members into the family home. I can't stop thinking about how these are all key factors in successfully passing on faith from parents to children. It is really encouraging to read about someone living family life with great intentionality!
What a wonderful interview. I especially appreciate Tessa's comments throughout about tools, what they are, how they shape us, etc. There's a lot to mull over here!!
Also, as an aside, a framed print of Monet's "Poppy Field" hangs above my mantelpiece!
Yes, a lot to mull over indeed. Tessa has tremendous wisdom to offer and is able to do so in such a profound yet accessible way. I love Monet although I have never seen this particular one in person (did you ever visit his paintings at the Marmottan or d'Orsay when you lived in Paris?)
Yes! We were fortunate enough to visit his home at Giverny, too. I have always loved the Impressionists! Which is a good thing these days, because whenever I write about parenting or motherhood or even homeschooling, editors have a tendency to pair my words with an image of a Cassatt!
Thank you for this inspiring interview. I would like to add a couple of books to the reading list: "In the Shadow of the Machine" and "Struggle for a Human Future," both by Jeremy Naydler.
From Talbott: "All this can be summarized by saying, “Technology is our hope if we can accept it as our enemy, but as our friend, it will destroy us.” Of course its friendly approach threatens us, and of course it calls for a certain resistance on our part, since it expresses our dominant tendencies, our prevailing lameness or one-sidedness. The only way we can become entire, whole, and healthy is to struggle against whatever reinforces our existing imbalance. Our primary task is to discover the potentials within ourselves that are not merely mechanical, not merely automatic, not reducible to computation. And the machine is a gift to us precisely because the peril in its siding with our one-sidedness forces us to strengthen the opposite side—at least it does if we recognize the peril and accept its challenge."
So true. We have to recover key words that have somehow become taboo. One word that I would want to reestablish is “evil.” I’m tired of the worn out takes trying to sympathize and “understand” that which is clearly evil. If we can’t even label it properly, how are we to combat it? One funny meme I saw that also featured CS Lewis showed GGR Martin of Game of Thrones fame saying, “Erm I love muh morally grey characters. Then it followed it up with CA Lewis smoking on his pipe declaring, “Kill evil. Behead evil. Roundhouse kick evil into the concrete. Stir fry evil in a Hobbit pan"
Thoughtful and lovely interview. And I particularly loved the quote she shared by Iris Murdoch: “Man is a creature who makes pictures of himself, and then comes to resemble the picture.” Wow.
Beautiful interview and I took so many notes. Also so excited to see Tessa reference Alex Langland's 'Craeft,' I read it several years ago and recommend it to anyone who will let me wax poetic about handmade coppiced pitchforks and thatching roofs, ha!
Yes there is lots to ponder here - we had thought of shortening the interview, but it just had too many good insights that we wanted to share with readers:)
Wonderful to see Tessa collaborating with you Ruth for this! And what an amazing reading list that was! One book I would add which I have found really helpful is 'Habits of the High Tech Heart' - an old book (early 2000s I think) but so jam packed full of wisdom.
Yes, Peco and I were happy to have a chance to interview her. This would make for another great live discussion, although it would likely fit best in a real place, with lots of food, and time for hours of wonderful conversation. Thanks for adding your reading recommendation as well:)
I had plenty on the reading list here, but +100 for The Machine Stops. I can't even remember how I originally made my way to it, but it was during a time when I was as passively immersed in the Machine as a fish is in water. It may have been the first stirrings of awakening, because I remember two thoughts at the end: the first, how prescient it was, despite the year in which it was written; the second, a foreboding that I was going to live to see it.
What an encouraging discussion. Thank you both so much.
I think anyone reading here would find this article pertinent: "The High Price of Convenience." It's about lessons learned when the author was helping his son with a school assignment, and they tried to make use of ChatGPT.
I have to admit I’m struggling here. I loved this interview, and my husband and I had these goals in mind for our family, and when we first got married we lived much like this family. And then we had kids, and we moved away from family and community in order to be able to afford to live out our values more fully, and let me be a stay at home mom and homeschool. And then we had a child with autism and mental disorders. And I tried to homeschool twice and it was a disaster. And we live in a rural, high poverty area where finding kindred spirits and community is extremely hard. I am an artist and my business is entirely based online (and it’s very successful but would NOT be successful at all if I tried to have a brick and mortar store in the area we live in). Over the difficult course of 12 years our family looks nothing like what my husband and I originally aspired to and what my husband and I still aspire to. My son hates being outside, he’s obsessed with technology. My children (both “double digits”) do not seem to value what we value and what we have tried and STILL try to instill in them. I love this newsletter but honestly, I feel so discouraged hearing how somehow families have managed to continue to live out their non-tech values without (seemingly?) a constant battle. I don’t know. Being “unplugged,” working in our large garden, listening to beautiful music, reading poetry, good literature, and surrounding ourselves with and pursuing the Good, True, and Beautiful in the myriad way that entails is still our goal…but oh my goodness it’s a battle. Do other people battle for this with their kids? My bubble has been popped in thinking this osmosis will just “happen” because we live this way, our children will live this way too! And I’m grieved in realizing that as hard as we have tried for some reason we just don’t seem to have the seamless time that this author has with creating a beautiful family culture that our kids are rooted next to us in. Anyway, I’m hanging on, praying and trying like crazy, but I would really love to hear a perspective from someone who struggles mightily for this vision, and largely alone since we don’t have extended family to draw on, and community in general is very sparse (and no, we can’t move somewhere else or change the culture here. We’ve tried). Thank you for any insights.
I don’t have much to add to Tessa’s response, except to say you seem to have demonstrated great resilience amid the challenges you’ve faced. For me, one of the takeaway messages of your story isn’t so much what we (the writers) have to teach you about tech use, but a recognition that we need to be careful about creating (even inadvertently) an idealized vision of life, and that we need to hear more stories, like yours, that keep us awake to the complex realities.
The only other thing I can say is, don’t underestimate the beautiful seeds of love and effort you are planting, however imperfect it may seem.
Thank you Peco for your thoughtful response. One of the things I liked the most about your Exogenesis book (that’s what brought me to your Substack) was the complexity and “non-black and white” world that you created. There definitely was no idealized vision of life, and it rang really true to me. We can try to live out our ideals (that isn’t a bad thing) but it is always extremely messy. Like the Benedites trying to go back to the “old ways,” the true ways but maybe overshooting a bit (it reminded me a bit of that movie “The Village” by M. Night Shyamalan), but still grappling with sin creeping in, and/or their children rejecting their vision of a good and beautiful life. The Kingdom is now and not yet, and even our best intentions are tainted with sin or the result of sin and brokenness in this world. There are so many things I could say, and layers to unpack about the complexities of even “failing” at what I think will be the best ways to help and safeguard my children. And how mental illness and disibilities in our family factors in to this. And even just the complexities of our extended families not being the safest and healthiest people so it’s hard to find people to rely on. I really love to hear your vision of how to sow seeds of beauty and resistance, but the dirt that some of us are working with seems very inhospitable 😂 but God is the Gardener, right?
I’m glad that Exogenesis resonated with you. Thank you for reading!
As for family, yes, I think you are spot on. Life, especially family life, is complexities all the way down. We’re still learning but the best lesson so far is that the complications are often the soil itself, not the stone or thorn. It’s easy to say that, of course; yet I keep finding it to be true.
Beth, thank you so much for your note. I wanted to say, first of all, that you are doing beautiful work for your family, and you are not alone in the battle!
And it truly is a battle (a battle I believe worth fighting, even though the way our families live it out or our particular battles will not look exactly the same as each other's), and it's really important to acknowledge that.
To fight for a good life for our family is indeed hard; to do it joyfully is harder. We don't have a seamless life; indeed, no one has! And we each of us need friends in our lives (even if they don't live next door—and indeed, we don't have family next door and none of my closest friends live in our town or our state) to encourage us and to help us work through those individual challenges.
I think it's hard to give particular insights without getting really specific, and without knowing each other's background and experience—which is why I've found it so so helpful to have friends who really know me to be able to walk through challenges with me (and who can really speak into my life and tell me things that I need to hear when I don't want to hear them!). But honestly, the best encouragement and insight I've gotten is from the lives of the saints, and of people like Maria Von Trapp—people who are quietly faithful, and keep going and keep trying, no matter the setbacks, who continually seek God through everything.
And for me, that's ultimately what this is all about—not living some "perfect homestead" life or anything like that, but knowing and loving God with our whole hearts, and being transformed by the Love that moves the stars. That's what I want for my children, and if I want them to be transformed by Love, I need to be transformed myself (and how much I need to grow and change!), and to give them the space to have that relationship for themselves.
I wish I could meet with you and talk over coffee or tea. I pray in the meantime, that you would be encouraged, dear sister. Keep praying, keep loving. God loves you and your family so much, and will not let you down!
Thank you so much Tessa. Yes you are so right. I cling to hope that this stage we are in is not the end of the story, and that God is experiencing this pain and struggle intimately with and in us, and us in His triune love! I too have found so much solace in the lives of the Saints. And my husband and I just became Benedictine oblates (we are in our novitiate year) at an Abbey 3 hours from us in order to find more stability in a deep and beautiful community, and so our children can further be exposed to people seeking the Good life in ways so beautifully countercultural. I wish we could chat about all the complexities over coffee too 😊 thank you so much for your prayers.
There’s more than one way to be an influencer.
Conspicuous performance of an aspirational lifestyle, including a “low tech” lifestyle, on the internet (ironically enough), is what gets the writers of this newsletter, the woman being interviewed here, etc. an income - or at least the digital platform that could potentially generate an income. Invitations to lectures that are livestreamed. Maintaining an author website, a twitter account, publishing in digital journals, etc. The same activities as any good fashion influencer might indulge in. Perhaps, fewer selfies.
It’s all about the spin, isn’t it? I baked a great loaf of bread yesterday and we’re planning for springtime in our small suburban garden; we went to church and took a walk in a public garden afterwards; we had friends over and played with their baby; my 4yo demanded to read St. George and the Dragon for the umpteenth time and we practiced writing her letters.
Then, at the end of the day Sunday, I lay on the couch while she watched Bluey for an hour while my accountant husband caught up on work and because I’m in my 1st trimester and needed to take a little nap before I collapsed. At bedtime, I played her her favorite lullaby album on my smart phone.
You don’t need to LARP to have a good life, IMO. My parents were conservative homeschoolers who did their utmost to impose a vision like this on us. It didn’t stick. We were all happier when they gave up and we got to approach each other as ourselves, rather than with some kind of Family Culture Agenda.
Glad to hear that you have found a path that works well for your family :)
We've started using our digital camera again, and it's so much easier to download pictures into our computer. Literally take the memory chip out, and drag the file over. Done! Way more "convenient" than those apps, and more fun when snapping surprise pics of my wife in the garden:
https://romanshapoval.substack.com/p/ancestors
Cellphone pics are a poor substitute for a real camera, and I'm shopping for a new digital Nikon (light-leak drop damaged my 35mm) because of the already-owned accessories/lenses. I miss my slides and the lighted images projected on a big white sheet!
A tiny picture hardly does justice to the Real big & beautiful.
1980's vivid, suck-in-my-breath to keep from crying moment:
Walking through the home/mansion and seeing The Boating Party on the wall.
My heart wept too when Cassatt's Mother and Child was displayed at eye level in the next room of Phillips Collection in DC. A must visit in the Capital.
“Art is part of the social purpose of the world and requires appreciation and the bonds of fellowship with all who understand. Art is meant to give pleasure―but pleasure of the right kind.”―Duncan Phillips, 1926
Tech robs me of hard-earned bits and pieces of my heart. I do not want to surrender to the endomorphic end game.
Ah. Love that you're devoted to quality over quantity. Pleasure of the right kind...why I love only a certain kind of dark chocolate, and buy nothing else.
What's your favorite thing to photograph?
Thank you for asking!
Recently (last 10years) the plants, bugs and life in my perennial garden are the most compelling to me. My cat is my assistant who often "photo bombs" the composition if I'm too engrossed.
When I travel, my photos help me remember the mood deep in the memory of a place or thing seen, which may or might not lead to painting or writing after I return from a journey.
What's that irresistible chocolate you prefer?
Funny auto correct made irresistible into irritable. Kinda like my feelings about tech.
I also want to hear about the chocolate :-)
I love your posts. I am a technophile, but also recognize you can have too much of a good thing. They are GREAT reminders to put down the tech and enjoy the world.
It's worth noting that I homeschooled my kids, and they all (a) had VERY limited exposure to technology, and (b) turned out to be extremely capable technologically and in life. One of them got a degree in computer science from Stanford and another in Game Art and Animation from University of Advancing Technology. How could that happen with kids limited to one computer hour (including games) a day? Well, they had to use that time wisely. Plus, I assured they all could build websites and had basic computer knowledge as elementary students, which only grew with them. It doesn't take much to make someone saavy, and assuring they read lots of paper books and hands-on ability doesn't hurt either!
I loved this so much, thank you for sharing it.
I recently wrote a piece for Front Porch Republic called Narnia Against the Machine, very much pulling from some of these same threads of thought. https://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2023/12/narnia-against-the-machine-deep-magic-for-the-modern-age/
I really appreciate in this interview the idea of moving not from a place of fear but from a place of being able to discern what makes a life good and joyful and worth living. By not allowing technology to control our lives we aren't living less, but more.
Thanks adding your reflections and for the link Natasha - will mark this for later reading!
Wonderful interview. Tessa spoke often about the intentionality she has for her children, especially around play, work, education, and bringing community members into the family home. I can't stop thinking about how these are all key factors in successfully passing on faith from parents to children. It is really encouraging to read about someone living family life with great intentionality!
What a wonderful interview. I especially appreciate Tessa's comments throughout about tools, what they are, how they shape us, etc. There's a lot to mull over here!!
Also, as an aside, a framed print of Monet's "Poppy Field" hangs above my mantelpiece!
Yes, a lot to mull over indeed. Tessa has tremendous wisdom to offer and is able to do so in such a profound yet accessible way. I love Monet although I have never seen this particular one in person (did you ever visit his paintings at the Marmottan or d'Orsay when you lived in Paris?)
Yes! We were fortunate enough to visit his home at Giverny, too. I have always loved the Impressionists! Which is a good thing these days, because whenever I write about parenting or motherhood or even homeschooling, editors have a tendency to pair my words with an image of a Cassatt!
I've had a poster of this Monet painting on my wall for decades, because it always reminds me of my children and me in our gardens. <3
Thank you for this inspiring interview. I would like to add a couple of books to the reading list: "In the Shadow of the Machine" and "Struggle for a Human Future," both by Jeremy Naydler.
Also "The Deceiving Virtues of Technology" by Stephen Talbott (https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/devices-of-the/9780596526801/ch01.html).
From Talbott: "All this can be summarized by saying, “Technology is our hope if we can accept it as our enemy, but as our friend, it will destroy us.” Of course its friendly approach threatens us, and of course it calls for a certain resistance on our part, since it expresses our dominant tendencies, our prevailing lameness or one-sidedness. The only way we can become entire, whole, and healthy is to struggle against whatever reinforces our existing imbalance. Our primary task is to discover the potentials within ourselves that are not merely mechanical, not merely automatic, not reducible to computation. And the machine is a gift to us precisely because the peril in its siding with our one-sidedness forces us to strengthen the opposite side—at least it does if we recognize the peril and accept its challenge."
Those are pithy excerpts from Talbott's book! I'll be reading at least that chapter you linked to. Thank you.
Fabulous article, thank you for sharing. Grateful for some more reading suggestions too!
Glad you enjoyed it Josh. Yes, the reading suggestions are really helpful!
So true. We have to recover key words that have somehow become taboo. One word that I would want to reestablish is “evil.” I’m tired of the worn out takes trying to sympathize and “understand” that which is clearly evil. If we can’t even label it properly, how are we to combat it? One funny meme I saw that also featured CS Lewis showed GGR Martin of Game of Thrones fame saying, “Erm I love muh morally grey characters. Then it followed it up with CA Lewis smoking on his pipe declaring, “Kill evil. Behead evil. Roundhouse kick evil into the concrete. Stir fry evil in a Hobbit pan"
Thoughtful and lovely interview. And I particularly loved the quote she shared by Iris Murdoch: “Man is a creature who makes pictures of himself, and then comes to resemble the picture.” Wow.
Beautiful interview and I took so many notes. Also so excited to see Tessa reference Alex Langland's 'Craeft,' I read it several years ago and recommend it to anyone who will let me wax poetic about handmade coppiced pitchforks and thatching roofs, ha!
Happy to hear you found the interview engaging. I had not heard about Langland's work - will need to add this to my list of books to get to :)
So much food for thought. Thank you for this.
Yes there is lots to ponder here - we had thought of shortening the interview, but it just had too many good insights that we wanted to share with readers:)
I'm so glad you didn't shorten it!
Thanks for this wonderful thoughtful essay on our current life.
Glad you enjoyed it. It was wonderful to get such deeply thoughtful responses from Tessa :)
Wonderful to see Tessa collaborating with you Ruth for this! And what an amazing reading list that was! One book I would add which I have found really helpful is 'Habits of the High Tech Heart' - an old book (early 2000s I think) but so jam packed full of wisdom.
Yes, Peco and I were happy to have a chance to interview her. This would make for another great live discussion, although it would likely fit best in a real place, with lots of food, and time for hours of wonderful conversation. Thanks for adding your reading recommendation as well:)
I had plenty on the reading list here, but +100 for The Machine Stops. I can't even remember how I originally made my way to it, but it was during a time when I was as passively immersed in the Machine as a fish is in water. It may have been the first stirrings of awakening, because I remember two thoughts at the end: the first, how prescient it was, despite the year in which it was written; the second, a foreboding that I was going to live to see it.
What an encouraging discussion. Thank you both so much.
I think anyone reading here would find this article pertinent: "The High Price of Convenience." It's about lessons learned when the author was helping his son with a school assignment, and they tried to make use of ChatGPT.
https://salvomag.com/post/the-high-price-of-convenience
"We are being nudged, ever more forcefully, toward passivity. Alas, passivity is to human agency what anesthesia is to consciousness."
Thanks for linking that article Gretchen - will add it to my "to read" list :)